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246 lines
9.4 KiB
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246 lines
9.4 KiB
Plaintext
From: Chris Lattner <sabre@nondot.org>
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To: "Vikram S. Adve" <vadve@cs.uiuc.edu>
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Subject: Re: LLVM Feedback
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I've included your feedback in the /home/vadve/lattner/llvm/docs directory
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so that it will live in CVS eventually with the rest of LLVM. I've
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significantly updated the documentation to reflect the changes you
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suggested, as specified below:
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> We should consider eliminating the type annotation in cases where it is
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> essentially obvious from the instruction type:
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> br bool <cond>, label <iftrue>, label <iffalse>
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> I think your point was that making all types explicit improves clarity
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> and readability. I agree to some extent, but it also comes at the
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> cost of verbosity. And when the types are obvious from people's
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> experience (e.g., in the br instruction), it doesn't seem to help as
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> much.
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Very true. We should discuss this more, but my reasoning is more of a
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consistency argument. There are VERY few instructions that can have all
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of the types eliminated, and doing so when available unnecesarily makes
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the language more difficult to handle. Especially when you see 'int
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%this' and 'bool %that' all over the place, I think it would be
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disorienting to see:
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br %predicate, %iftrue, %iffalse
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for branches. Even just typing that once gives me the creeps. ;) Like I
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said, we should probably discuss this further in person...
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> On reflection, I really like your idea of having the two different
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> switch types (even though they encode implementation techniques rather
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> than semantics). It should simplify building the CFG and my guess is it
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> could enable some significant optimizations, though we should think
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> about which.
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Great. I added a note to the switch section commenting on how the VM
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should just use the instruction type as a hint, and that the
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implementation may choose altermate representations (such as predicated
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branches).
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> In the lookup-indirect form of the switch, is there a reason not to
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> make the val-type uint?
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No. This was something I was debating for a while, and didn't really feel
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strongly about either way. It is common to switch on other types in HLL's
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(for example signed int's are particually common), but in this case, all
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that will be added is an additional 'cast' instruction. I removed that
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from the spec.
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> I agree with your comment that we don't need 'neg'
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Removed.
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> There's a trade-off with the cast instruction:
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> + it avoids having to define all the upcasts and downcasts that are
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> valid for the operands of each instruction (you probably have
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> thought of other benefits also)
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> - it could make the bytecode significantly larger because there could
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> be a lot of cast operations
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+ You NEED casts to represent things like:
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void foo(float);
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...
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int x;
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...
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foo(x);
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in a language like C. Even in a Java like language, you need upcasts
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and some way to implement dynamic downcasts.
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+ Not all forms of instructions take every type (for example you can't
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shift by a floating point number of bits), thus SOME programs will need
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implicit casts.
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To be efficient and to avoid your '-' point above, we just have to be
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careful to specify that the instructions shall operate on all common
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types, therefore casting should be relatively uncommon. For example all
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of the arithmetic operations work on almost all data types.
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> Making the second arg. to 'shl' a ubyte seems good enough to me.
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> 255 positions seems adequate for several generations of machines
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Okay, that comment is removed.
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> and is more compact than uint.
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No, it isn't. Remember that the bytecode encoding saves value slots into
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the bytecode instructions themselves, not constant values. This is
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another case where we may introduce more cast instructions (but we will
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also reduce the number of opcode variants that must be supported by a
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virtual machine). Because most shifts are by constant values, I don't
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think that we'll have to cast many shifts. :)
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> I still have some major concerns about including malloc and free in the
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> language (either as builtin functions or instructions).
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Agreed. How about this proposal:
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malloc/free are either built in functions or actual opcodes. They provide
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all of the type safety that the document would indicate, blah blah
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blah. :)
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Now, because of all of the excellent points that you raised, an
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implementation may want to override the default malloc/free behavior of
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the program. To do this, they simply implement a "malloc" and
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"free" function. The virtual machine will then be defined to use the user
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defined malloc/free function (which return/take void*'s, not type'd
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pointers like the builtin function would) if one is available, otherwise
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fall back on a system malloc/free.
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Does this sound like a good compromise? It would give us all of the
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typesafety/elegance in the language while still allowing the user to do
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all the cool stuff they want to...
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> 'alloca' on the other hand sounds like a good idea, and the
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> implementation seems fairly language-independent so it doesn't have the
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> problems with malloc listed above.
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Okay, once we get the above stuff figured out, I'll put it all in the
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spec.
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> About indirect call:
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> Your option #2 sounded good to me. I'm not sure I understand your
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> concern about an explicit 'icall' instruction?
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I worry too much. :) The other alternative has been removed. 'icall' is
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now up in the instruction list next to 'call'.
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> I believe tail calls are relatively easy to identify; do you know why
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> .NET has a tailcall instruction?
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Although I am just guessing, I believe it probably has to do with the fact
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that they want languages like Haskell and lisp to be efficiently runnable
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on their VM. Of course this means that the VM MUST implement tail calls
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'correctly', or else life will suck. :) I would put this into a future
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feature bin, because it could be pretty handy...
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> A pair of important synchronization instr'ns to think about:
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> load-linked
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> store-conditional
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What is 'load-linked'? I think that (at least for now) I should add these
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to the 'possible extensions' section, because they are not immediately
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needed...
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> Other classes of instructions that are valuable for pipeline
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> performance:
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> conditional-move
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> predicated instructions
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Conditional move is effectly a special case of a predicated
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instruction... and I think that all predicated instructions can possibly
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be implemented later in LLVM. It would significantly change things, and
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it doesn't seem to be very necessary right now. It would seem to
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complicate flow control analysis a LOT in the virtual machine. I would
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tend to prefer that a predicated architecture like IA64 convert from a
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"basic block" representation to a predicated rep as part of it's dynamic
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complication phase. Also, if a basic block contains ONLY a move, then
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that can be trivally translated into a conditional move...
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> I agree that we need a static data space. Otherwise, emulating global
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> data gets unnecessarily complex.
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Definately. Also a later item though. :)
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> We once talked about adding a symbolic thread-id field to each
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> ..
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> Instead, it could a great topic for a separate study.
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Agreed. :)
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> What is the semantics of the IA64 stop bit?
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Basically, the IA64 writes instructions like this:
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mov ...
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add ...
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sub ...
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op xxx
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op xxx
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;;
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mov ...
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add ...
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sub ...
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op xxx
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op xxx
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;;
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Where the ;; delimits a group of instruction with no dependencies between
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them, which can all be executed concurrently (to the limits of the
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available functional units). The ;; gets translated into a bit set in one
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of the opcodes.
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The advantages of this representation is that you don't have to do some
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kind of 'thread id scheduling' pass by having to specify ahead of time how
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many threads to use, and the representation doesn't have a per instruction
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overhead...
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> And finally, another thought about the syntax for arrays :-)
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> Although this syntax:
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> array <dimension-list> of <type>
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> is verbose, it will be used only in the human-readable assembly code so
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> size should not matter. I think we should consider it because I find it
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> to be the clearest syntax. It could even make arrays of function
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> pointers somewhat readable.
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My only comment will be to give you an example of why this is a bad
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idea. :)
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Here is an example of using the switch statement (with my recommended
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syntax):
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switch uint %val, label %otherwise,
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[%3 x {uint, label}] [ { uint %57, label %l1 },
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{ uint %20, label %l2 },
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{ uint %14, label %l3 } ]
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Here it is with the syntax you are proposing:
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switch uint %val, label %otherwise,
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array %3 of {uint, label}
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array of {uint, label}
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{ uint %57, label %l1 },
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{ uint %20, label %l2 },
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{ uint %14, label %l3 }
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Which is ambiguous and very verbose. It would be possible to specify
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constants with [] brackets as in my syntax, which would look like this:
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switch uint %val, label %otherwise,
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array %3 of {uint, label} [ { uint %57, label %l1 },
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{ uint %20, label %l2 },
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{ uint %14, label %l3 } ]
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But then the syntax is inconsistent between type definition and constant
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definition (why do []'s enclose the constants but not the types??).
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Anyways, I'm sure that there is much debate still to be had over
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this... :)
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-Chris
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http://www.nondot.org/~sabre/os/
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http://www.nondot.org/MagicStats/
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http://korbit.sourceforge.net/
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